Meeting Ayn Rand

ARI

Charles, when did you meet Ayn Rand?

CHARLES

February 1960, in New York City. Branden was giving lectures on Objectivism, and I knew that she came for the question period to answer questions. At the end of the evening, I went up to the podium, and I introduced myself. But we didn’t have a conversation. Some of her friends were there. They were going out for coffee, and I was invited along. The next thing I knew, I was walking down the street and talking with Ayn Rand.

ARI

How did it happen that you were walking with her?

CHARLES

As we were leaving, people broke up into couples, and I saw that she was walking with Frank. There was this whole side of Ayn Rand unoccupied, and so I hurried over to fill the gap.

ARI

What do you remember of that meeting?

CHARLES

I remember that what happened surprised me. I was glowing inwardly at my good fortune. At most, I had expected to introduce myself that evening, maybe have a brief conversation, and then leave. But, there I was, walking with her! I was thinking of what to say. But she took over, and began the conversation. I thought she would want to talk about the lecture or some aspect of the philosophy. But no, she was interested in me—who I was, what I did for a living. When I told her that I was an attorney and had come from Washington, D.C., to hear her, she smiled and said it was a compliment to her that I had come “so far,” and it indicated a serious interest in ideas. She wanted to know what aspect of the law I specialized in and what I enjoyed about my work. It was the focus on me that I hadn’t expected. You would have thought that I was the celebrity.

ARI

What were your impressions of her?

CHARLES

In manner, she was a very gracious lady. I would say she was friendly, but not familiar.

ARI

Would you say she was formal?

CHARLES

No, formal is too strong a word. I’d characterize it as more of a cordial reserve. There was a respectful distance, but there was also civility and an attitude of good will. I believed that she was genuinely interested in me. Frank was that way, too.

I don’t remember what else we talked about. At one point, she was speaking and we were about to cross a street. She started to step off the curb—without looking. I took her arm to stop her and she looked up at me; she seemed a little surprised. But I had the impression she approved of the protective gesture. I also remember that she went right on speaking to make her point, as if there hadn’t been an interruption. That, I learned, was typical of her: nothing distracted her; she never lost her train of thought. She never paused to say things like “What were we talking about?” or “Where was I?” She always knew.

ARI

Did you see her after that?

CHARLES

I saw her whenever I could. I traveled to where she was speaking—Philadelphia, Boston, New York. In fact, she was there when I met Mary Ann. In 1962 Ayn gave a lecture at Hunter College where Mary Ann was teaching. I knew who Mary Ann was, but she didn’t know me. After the lecture, I followed Ayn and her friends into an elevator, and Mary Ann and I were introduced. But I didn’t get to know Ayn on a personal basis until I started to date Mary Ann the following year and went to social gatherings attended by Ayn and Frank. That was really the beginning of my relationship with Ayn.